- Acting of Lead Performers
- Acting of Supporting Cast
- Music Score
- Title Sequence
- Historical Importance
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Carol For Another Christmas Review
- Rebekah Demary
I really like this movie, especially the Robert Shaw part of Ghost of Christmas Future and to be honest, Robert Shaw is the main reason I purchased this movie and yes, it is available on DVD on Ebay. This movie is still relevant today as it was in 1964. It is probably too political for some people but very educational if viewed as a history lesson.
Still So Very Relevant
This thought provoking movie was produced in the early-mid 60's and yet how is it we are still not learning from past mistakes? It simply blows my mind that in the 50 years since production, nearly all of the social issues the movie portrays are still so sadly very relevant today if not much worse. I love the line-up of some of the best actors of their time and I have always been a huge fan of Rod Serling. Yes some of the comments concerning the slow pace and flow of the movie are not off base but the overall meaning and spirit of the program dates back hundreds of years to Dickens' "A Christmas Carol"(naturally)and beyond. And yes there are some depressing moments depicted throughout but that just drives the movies point home to anybody with at least half a heart and a sense of social justice/equality regarding their fellow man?
how appropriate for this post election season
This film was new to me and shocking how it captured where we still are. How little we have learned from all the wars of the 20th century and how we have just elected someone who is in bed with the industrialists and arms dealers, and who thinks nothing of pressing the button. We do not want to deal with all the refugees the US and Europe has created. I hope it is shown at an hour where more will see it. Between this and V, film has expressed where we are and where we are headed.
- Barry Lane
More leftist/globalist, safe space guilt. A trip to be avoided.
Discovering an unknown gem.
We just finished watching this unknown gem for the 1st time. We'd never heard of it, and were captivated by another Rod Serling masterpiece. As much as we love the story of A Christmas Carol, this version struck a chord unlike any other we have ever seen, and is a MUST SEE if ever it is shown again...especially today! I only regret that it does not exist on DVD, as I would dearly like to give it a Christmas gift to everyone I know.
I suspect this is getting shown at 3 am because its politics are a bit heavy and not all people will agree with the views expressed. It seems to be one of those movies that will be regarded as an unsung classic to those who agree with the anti-nuclear theme, which is expressed in a very old-fashioned way, as if most Americans then were unaware of the mass destruction an atom bomb could cause. Those who feel the film is one-sided in, for example, not giving weight to the historical reasons behind the US decision to use nuclear weapons at Hiroshima, will probably dislike the film. Politics aside, this is an extremely heavy, talky and slow-moving film. Not one of Serling's best in my opinion due to the relative lack of surprise and, well, all that talking and heaviness. I have to say that for a so-called "Christmas" movie, it's extremely depressing at a time of year when many people are already struggling to keep their spirits up. Not something you want to watch for a holiday uplift.
Why is this movie scheduled at such an early morning spot where few are watching TCM? I didn't see the beginning of it and it was just luck I happened to be up that early to see the last part. These are cultural time capsules that are the best part of TCM I value the most. Hope this one becomes available on DVD soon.
A bit of nice film history
Anything written by Rod Serling is worth the viewing, and I was amazed at the cast and the director. All first rate. The story is a bit over dramatic and the message is still timely.
Historical Perspective Needed
This must be viewed within the history of the times. It was made in 1964 during the Cold War, and fears of mutual nuclear annihilation were high. Those fears led some to criticize any country that held nuclear weapons, including and primarily the U.S. It was feared that an "accidental nuclear war" might be triggered, and it was felt by some that the U.S. bore a responsibility, and its victory in WWII must be undermined in order to rationalize U.S. responsibility in an accidental nuclear war. Thus, the film picks a "naive American" in the form of Sterling Hayden, as transparently representative of the perceived corporate evil in the U.S. that stood to profit from war. His eyes are "opened" to the horrors of war and its aftermath. Historian A.J.P. Taylor was part of the intelligentsia that felt that in order to force the abandonment of nuclear weapons, the fears of an accidental war had to be fed by showing that the U.S. should not be viewed as having used its weapons to conquer evil, but as a country that could accidentally be a participant in a nuclear war and thus, as a "cause" of the ensuing accidental nuclear war that could ensue. Hollywood picked up on this anti-U.S. nuclear arsenal theme, and this film feeds into those critical of the U.S. and its nuclear arsenal, and the idea that it was a responsible party for the wars in which the country had participated and would be responsible for future wars. Wonderful to see so many great actors of the day, but don't take it too seriously.
Everyone needs to watch this!
Everyone needs to watch this, and now! We as a nation are sliding closer and closer to the me, me, me attitude toward life. No government, no restrictions, no limit to what money can buy, and to Hell with those who have no money. The masses are following Donald Trump the Ultimate Me, to their own destruction!
Some things are best left alone
A big name cast, director, and writer. Watch it out of curiosity if you must but don't expect to be entertained. Nothing says Christmas like a beloved classic bastardized for politics.
A Powerful Piece
I recommended this to several coworkers. Entertainment Weekly had a Christmas Holiday timeline and this title and Rod Sterling circa 1964 showed up. I did some research and was fascinated and actually stayed up and watched it. The acting is outstanding by everyone in the cast. Peter Sellers is distributing a 1964 prediction of Jamestown and the tragedy there. I thought the Ghost of Christmas Present was both touching and thought provoking. Steve Lawrence has the WW 1 solider was also excellent. Preaching yes. Perhaps a liberal bent if you call being liberal caring about your fellow man and avoiding nuclear war. Haunting especially the ME because the US is danger of changing We the people to Me myself and I and Rod Sterling predicted it over 50 years ago. That's reason enough for all of us to watch it.
Carol for Another Christmas
intriguing and disturbing. With so many remakes of a classic it is hard to imagine this would bubble up as a classic but with its scissor sharp perspectives it should be required viewing. Peter Sellers never better and yet so disturbing. Fair to say this movie haunts the viewer.
A life long lasting impression.
- Matt ONeil
As a highly impressionable eleven yr old in 1964, this movie made a dent on my childish psyche that has ever remained. Though I have not since viewed it (except the 3 excerpts on this site) the scene in the burned out church that culminates with a small boy (about my age) in the rafters unwrapping a Christmas gift labeled JUST LIKE DADDY'S, lifting out a western style six-shooter and shooting dead the speaker (Peter Sellers) left a macabre and sinister scar on me. I recall having nightmares about it for some time. Is that a suitable review? I think so.
Truly A Turner Classic
- David Westbay
This movie has a timeless message of the importance of continuous dialogue and international peacekeeping. I hope that CAROL FOR ANOTHER CHRISTMAS becomes available on DVD.
long time ago
- Tracie Fielden
I was fourteen years old when this United Nations production of Rod Serling's brilliant work aired on TV. I have never forgotten the powerful impact it had on me and my entire family. To this day we all check periodically to see if it has joined the ranks of productions available for purchase and viewing at home. My understanding was that it was was performed live and over the years when I have questioned the answer I have received was always that it wasn't recorded and would never be viewed again.Thank you Mr. Turner. Thank you.Release it now so I can own it and share it with my family.
incredible movie with an eternal message
- ray armstrong
What a great movie for all time and all people. This should be a dvd in original form to show how long people have suffered from the decisions to go to war.A deeply moving picture that strikes deep in the soul.
This movie HAS to be made available on DVD
- Steve Thompson
I caught this movie on TCM on March 26th, and was amazed. I teach high school US and World history, and I would love to show this movie to my classes, both as a period piece from 1964 and for its discussion of US isolationism. Bringing this movie out on DVD would be a civic service, as far as I'm concerned.
Ahead of Its Time
- susan cahill
Upon noting that this was written by Rod Serling I am not surprised that it was so far ahead of its time. Here we are in 2013 and there is movement afoot for a NON-GOVERNMENT of the ME individuals produced by the Super rich and powerful and gaining applause by the ignorant masses. The survival of the fittest is looked upon with relish and lots of bigotry, hatred, and ammo. It is really so sad to see this past " future of the imagination" come to pass, I just hope that like Mr. Grudge the majority will awaken to the realization that the world they want is suicide......a wonderful movie and one I hope will be available on DVD, I know I will certainly purchase it.
Carol for Another Christmas ... for DVD!!
Carol for Another Christmas (1964): While watching a great lineup of "essentail 1950's films" on TCM this last Saturday, Ben Mankiewicz introduced the following 'uncut' TV Christmas movie from 1964 which had never been aired since its first showing for over 50 years! Right ... must have been a reason why. I then shifted my attention from the TV and was preparing dinner, so being another pablum-filled 60's TV-produced Christmas film, I'd rather shrugged off the intro as it played in the background. I decided to watch the introduction credits as they scrolled and thought to myself, "... another sappy TV Christmas movie" .. I wonder what 'has-been' stars would be starring in this little clunker. It was an impressive cast ... then the name ROD SERLING appeared as the writer. I was a huge SERLING and TZONE fan, so I figured I might as well give it the benefit of my doubt while I readied my remote for a program search for something more interesting. Started off with some very strong and heavy banter between Sterling Hayden and Ben Gazarra. I WAS HOOKED AND INTRIGUED! I sat glued to this superb little gem to the end! This had to be the most ghoulish, awe-inspiring, hard-hitting, and poignant variation of Dickens' "Christmas Carol" that I had ever seen. SERLING was a master and the cast/acting was incredible (Peter Sellers steals the show!) ... I had never seen anything like it. To me, it was a pure, extended, and perfect episode of THE TWILIGHT ZONE. I was hoping it would be aired again soon during the holiday, but I must have caught the very last TCM showing (checking the schedule listings). TCM needs to acquire this film for their TCM VAULT DVD Series!! I had watched in on their HD channel and the quality was excellent. I hope this film will make it o DVD soon!
I've been waiting 48 years
- Dave Nicholas
I caught the beginning of "Carol for Another Christmas" on TV 48 years ago (12/28/1964, I believe), when I was drawn away by my family to accompany them to a theatrical film that had just opened (some flash in the pan spy movie called "Goldfinger"). "Carol" was written by Rod Serling, for heaven's sake. It would be rerun. I've been waiting for it to be rerun for 48 years, and when I happened upon it just about to start on AMC (12/22/2012) all activity in my household stopped and we watched Serling's film. One of my first reactions after the movie was over was: "Where can I buy a copy of this (yesterday)?" When I realized it was owned by TCM, I logged in here (for the first time) to purchase a copy.This is a piece of film history. It doesn't matter if you agree with the politics of the piece. This is a snapshot taken of an important writer's work, not to mention all the other top-flight professionals involved in the project, taken at a turning point in our country's history and our culture's film history. I'm much closer to the end of my life now than to its beginning. I want to watch this film again, study it, try to understand it in the cinematic, literary, wartime, and home front cultures of the mid-1960's when some of us were just growing into adulthood. Among other things, I want to reexperience this film and try to understand it better, try to understand Serling better. Has he been gone so long that his original work of the 1950's and 1960's has been forgotten? The man was no Paddy Chayevsky, but his work changed some of us. "Carol for Another Christmas," the half hour I saw of it in 1964, left me with a five-decade yearning to see the rest -- which I have now done, and once was not enough.I want to buy a copy of this movie, possibly more than one (as gifts). Where can I do that?
- Just me
So ... 2/3 of the world goes hungry in the 1960's. Just how much of the world went hungry before the US existed? How much disease and poverty wrapped itself around the globe? How many people died in senseless wars? Holy wars? How many people never saw their 50th birthday? How many died in infancy? The answers to these questions are never even hinted at in the film, as if only now are they relevant --- now that one nation has such wealth and power that none ever had before and has to a greater degree been able to overcome such liabilities. Instead of looking inward at their own failings and ways to improve their current situations, it now becomes obvious that the wealth that one fought long and hard for in order to acquire is best used (through the almighty U.N.) to help everyone else who thought their political way was the correct path. Well, to them I say that the US will gladly teach you how to fish .... but will not supply you with endless free fish. Of course we help those who fall on hard times (the US gives more foreign aid than any other nation on Earth), but to make it seem in this film that it is inaction on the part of the US that 2/3 of the world goes hungry is downright insulting to anyone's intelligence.
A missing piece of history
- William May
If you are a fan of the work of Rod Serling, this is a very important missing element. The fact that it has never rerun from 1964 to 2012 indicates that it was not well received. I found it interesting. Perhaps not Serling's best but still something we would never produce or air these days. It may be preachy ,but at least it has a point of view? Besides, this thing is filled with some top line actors doing darned good work. It appears to have been aired on ABC, so I assume that we all need to write Disney/ABC to release it for sale in some form.
A Long Hidden Gem With Much To Recommend It
Well-written, acted, and directed, this engaging made for television film is an interesting twist on a literary classic and a departure from more traditional holiday movie or television offerings. While the film has a definite frame of reference that resonates today, it is neither over-bearing nor "preachy." Like many viewers, I knew nothing about the film, came to it with no preconceptions, and left impressed.
Why is it
- Brian Dahlen
Why is it...The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. I thought this was an excellent film, too bad it has only been shown twice in half a century.
Are we really going there?
The Dicken's work A Christmas Carol is one of my favorite novels. I have a collection of numerous DVDs of the various remakes. I really want to get a copy of this. By far it is the best attempt at updating the novel to the visual format. A solid five stars! As a retired US Naval Officer who generally leans to the right I was amazed at how much I agreed with the moral - WE, not me, MUST negotiate and work to a common ground for our own good. However I doubt that the Tea Party faction of the Republican Party has a clue. Like Grover Norquist, it appears their mantra is 'my way or the highway'.
How can I get a copy of this movie?
We stumbled upon this movie this afternoon and were immediately drawn into it. The messages about war and how it destroys our younger generations were still on point today. The central character is the quintessential 1 percenter who hates do-gooders working to improve society during the turbulent 60s. The main way in which he is different from today's rich is that his son apparently actually went to war where he was killed.There are some scenes of the main character at a hospital in Hiroshima where children whose faces have been burned off by the bomb are swaddled in bandages that are very disturbing since they show the horrible reality of that war.In the segment about Christmas Future, society is living post Apocalypse. In this segment, Peter Sellers plays the Imperial Me who preaches to survivors about the importance of everyone being individuals and wiping out the idea of "we". A nearby colony of survivors wants to join with their colony and he argues against it. A black man who plays the servant to the main character is the only one to step forward and argue that the future of civilization requires that people work together in communities. He is shouted down and threatened so he climbs up a wall to get away from the mob. The mob then shouts to him to jump from the wall. In a classic scene, a little boy in the crowd opens a box that says "Just like daddie's" and pulls out a gun and shoots the man on the wall. Huge commentary on our society. We thought it was interesting that the people in the crowd wore cowboy hats and western garb.
- Linda Kemp
Thank you for showing this amazing film. I just wish everyone in the world could see it and find it in themselves to understand its message. Yes, some may find some of it a bit heavy handed, but that may be the only way the we will understand. If we don't talk, we will not be able to save ourselves or our planet.
WOW....awesome... and so relevant
Awesome....outstanding, I love the film. This being added to his body of work makes me love him even more. A true heavyweight. Timing is relevant.... they say it's everything. This is poignant now as it was back then. I hope it receives the exposure it deserves. I find it interesting but not surprising there are those who find this film annoying....distasteful etc., even though it deals with universal principles of life. it appeals to our intuitive instincts of appreciation. Separate and aside from a judgement on the subject matter.....the film as a body of work should be appreciated.I want this in my film collection!
Mr. Dickens meets Dr. Strangelove.
ME-thinks the irritated souls posting here doth protest-dith too much. Clearly this is a timeless story of the evils of self-indulgence, close-mindedness, narcissism and other vices which have sunk previous civilizations and will probably sink ours. You may not be comfortable with the message - if so, Rod Serling accomplished his objective.
So This is what will Happen
So this is what will happen if we don't let govt. take care of us and the UN run the show. Seems like 1960 something was really predicting the future of 2012. ME is already here.
Shame this film not shown every year.
- Robert Smits
Many of the issues raised by this film in 1964 are not so different from those raised today, and the bigotry and isolationism shown by people today is not so different either, as witness the rise and fall of the Tea Party. It's well done, the performances are powerful, and it's a shame this film has been hidden for 50 some years.
Imperfect but worth watching all the same
"Carol for Another Christmas" is a really well-thought-out updating of the classic Dickens story about a man who refuses to look beyond the walls of his counting-house until three ghosts show him the error of his ways. Its anti-war and anti-isolationist sentiment is rather simple-minded at times (especially in the middle "Christmas Present") section, and I would have loved to know more about Grudge/Scrooge and his relationship with son Marley. (Did Marley fall in the Battle of the Bulge? Korea? That "police action" in Vietnam?) The budget was clearly only slightly larger than the average "Twilight Zone" episode, but for that the film contains some truly haunting images, especially the shot of schoolgirl victims of the Hiroshima bomb, swathed in gauze like coccoons. And the cast is first-rate, especially the great Sterling Hayden in the central role, and Peter Sellers as the sly "Great Me", a half-pop star, half-cult leader dictator in the Ayn Rand-fantasy Christmas Future. [This also made me think of Sellers' late-1970s appearance on "The Muppet Show," when Kermit assures the guest star that he can just relax and be himself, and Sellers replies, "There is no me. I used to have a me, but many years ago, I had it surgically removed!"]
- Steve Sharon
I love it when people get together to try to be more moral than the citizenry and hit them over the head...wrongly...with their self-righteousness. QUality professionals got together to create a piece of garbage. not even half a star.
Carol For Another Christmas
Given the time in which this was produced, this movie is gives the insight of a family with issues already and compounded by a perpetual grieving father. The father has turned his bitterness inward and toward the one person who chooses to deal with him, his nephew. Within the first fifteen minutes, he tells his nephew to leave at least 3 times, then continues to debate with him, and yet his nephew still stands up to him. This produced in 1964 when the United States was at the top of its game, and the father lets it be known continuously during his speech. Like the storyline of A Christmas Carol, the father is facing demons of his own decision making, he sees and hears things that no one else does. The first ghost has a serious attitude, it's kind of funny, the story shows that the U.S. is a melting pot, even though this was to be a support for U.N. it seems that it was more of an antagonistic view of fighting a war. The first ghost shows how talking instead of fighting can solve problems. This movie is a good one to watch for a good history lesson for those on both sides of the fence. I am going to stop here as I am writing this while the movie is on, and yes it does have that "Twilight Zone" atmosphere about it.
More left wing drivel
It is easy to see why this production has been kept under wraps all these years. Another left wing piece of drivel, interventionist, wealth distribution and the UN is going to save us from ourselves. Sterling Haden makes the most sense at the beginning of the show before he is "re-educated" over the course of the production. Refreshing to know there were so many pinheads in the entertainment business even back then. If only the rich would share with the poor and we all just get along every thing will be fine. This production was all about the greatness of the UN. By 2013 we should all know that the UN is a bloated club for pampered diplomats, 3rd world thugs, and a money pit for the US taxpayer.The only thing that's changed since this production is that the leftist message in the movies and TV has gotten more subtle and managed to get us into the current sorry political, cultural, and financial state we are at today.
Viewing this film diminished my view of Serling, but was instructive as a mid-way mile marker in the century-long process of collectivization of the US. I found the use of Christmas to manipulate viewers particularly distasteful. The post-apocalyptic scenes, which depicted the survivors as "me first", were particularly ironic. In the 50 years since it was produced, the political views of the filmmakers have become mainstream. And as the US has been pushed ever leftward, the number of takers in society has increased to a near majority. We will soon face a sovereign debt crisis as a result. Lesson: if Hollywood thinks something is a good idea - do the opposite.
Put it back in the vault
I am a Serling fan but this is a disappointment - it is over the top leftist UN propaganda with a swipe at Goldwater & Rand, it taints my view of Serling.
Carol For Another Christmas
- Bruce Reber
I checked my local TV listings on Sunday 12/16 and saw a film titled "A Carol For Another Christmas" was airing on TCM at 8:00 PM ET. It was not rated (one, two, three or four stars). I turned it on and heard host Robert Osborne's intro, and he said that it was a made-for-TV film that originally aired on 12/28/64 and had not been aired anywhere on TV since. He also listed the cast members (some of the greatest film stars of that era), and the writer, Rod Serling, creator of the classic Sci-Fi series "Twilight Zone". I watched for about the first five minutes and it didn't seem very interesting, so I turned it off. After reading the reviews for ACFAC I see what a great film I missed! I'm going to watch it when it airs again on 12/22!
- Tim Everton
I and a friend tuned in during the last third of this movie - we were astounded! I hadn't realized that it had been scripted by Rod Serling until I came to this website, and now it makes great sense. Who but Serling could have done this? I only wish it could be replayed soon and we will not have to wait another forty-eight years. What we caught of it makes me long to see the complete show. As relevant now as it was then, and perhaps more so. Thank you TCM for bringing this out for viewing. One could consider it highly political, as some reviews here have. I would say highly human and philosophic.
Fantastic and extremely relevant
- John Alford
Rod Serling was quite prescient when he wrote this politically-charged adaptation of Dickens' A Christmas Carol. The cast is fantastic: Sterling Hayden, Eva Marie Saint, Ben Gazzara, Steve Lawrence (as the Ghost of Christmas Past), Pat Hingle (as the Ghost of Christmas Present), Robert Shaw (as the Ghost of Christmas Future), Peter Sellers (as the deranged Imperial Me), James Shigeta, Percy Rodriguez and Britt Ekland. It was directed by Joseph L. Mankiewicz. Most adaptations of the Dickens tale do not deal with the horror, misery and aftermath of war, world famine, displacement, and the dangers of nationalism and isolationism, but this one sure did. The film will likely irritate the far right - those that have embraced the selfishness advocated by Ayn Rand and those that comprise the pro-war faction of the political spectrum. I hope to catch a repeat of this soon. Thanks for digging this up, TCM!
- Don Ernst
Glad to see this being aired after 48 years! What an anti-war film!I'm sure it didn't go over well at the time, especially since the song "The Eve of Destruction" had been censored at the same time.The message though is timeless and universal.Peter Sellers was outrageous!
- Jan Neverdahl
I stumbled on this movie about a third of the way through. I was stunned by the relevance of the dialogue. It is sad that mankind hasn't progressed at all. I agree completely with the reviewer who stated that the more things change, the more they stay the same. This should be required viewing for the members of Congress. Why don't we have compassion for each other? This movie is superb.
Meaningful today, only more so
- Scott Miller
With the tensions in the Middle East coming to a head, and our own political decisiveness in the US, this film has more to say to us today than perhaps ever before.
- Dan Hand
If nothing else, this self-righteous piece of Internationalist propaganda, from the usual Hollywood suspects, shows that the war on Christmas-- in this case, appropriating Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" as a cultural weapon to use against the traditional American culture that then still reigned-- is generations old, not some recent phenomenon. The self-righteousness of Rod Serling and Joseph Mankewicz is outstripped only by their rank hypocrisy, living out their lives as millionaire celebrities, living off of a nation, a culture and a system that they so obviously despised. (Perhaps if they had shown this film abroad, in the right country, the Middle East would have remained nuclear-free, to this day. Ha!) Regardless, within months of its lone prior showing, the president that all of these great Hollywood paragons helped to maintain in office, instead of "warmonger" Barry Goldwater, sent the Marines off to Vietnam....
Nothing has changed in 48 years
- Bob Clay
The more times change, the more they stay the same. In 2012 we are debating the same issues as we were in 1964. The only difference is that the bombs are bigger, the missiles fly farther and our pretense of tolerance is a bigger sham then ever. This movie really stunned me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised as it was written by Rod Serling.
Who Is Asking the Questions ?(1964)
A Christmas Carol with a Political Message ? Straight from the U.N. propoganda department a 1960's guilt trip designed to manipulate the heart strings and make you disavow your allegiance to your country...wow... Apparently, the World is not such a good place(according to the U.N.)and the World isn't a better place with them in the Leadership role ? Hhhmmm... You see, Brotherhood starts when you haven't any agenda than to follow the cronies who have a "better" way. Peace through one stream of thought...Well, it never worked before, and there is no reason to think or believe that the U.N. has a workable plan, they do not. Enjoyable Fantasy fare with many, many stars. Mostly for the curious.3 stars out of 5. Totally ridiculous.
Where is a Rod Serling? we need another one now.
and a Joseph Mankiewicz ---I am blown away by the power of his script and the "teleplay" & I've just started watching... I believe that Dickens would concur. I hope this will be shown again. It's sadly -- soo timely..
Wow, just wow
- Mark Williams
Breathtaking, wow, just plain wow. I am a hard-core nationalist and former chairman of the Tea Party Express, but.... wow. You could not have unearthed this forgotten work at a better time.PLEASE keep it alive, but do not run it into the ground.